“一个不合‘时宜’的艺术家”——高炀访谈
摘要：并非理想中的学院
吴鸿：你是从什么时候开始学绘画的，又在什么时候接受了正规美术训练？
高炀：正式学绘画大约是八岁，后来立志想考中央美院，考了多年都是因为外语成绩差几分落榜，86年去了内蒙师大美术系读了四年。
吴鸿：你在大学期间，也是’85新潮时期，你在上学时接触到一些西方现代运动的观念吗？
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　　并非理想中的学院　　吴鸿：你是从什么时候开始学绘画的，又在什么时候接受了正规美术训练？　　高炀：正式学绘画大约是八岁，后来立志想考中央美院，考了多年都是因为外语成绩差几分落榜，86年去了内蒙师大美术系读了四年。
　　吴鸿：你在大学期间，也是’85新潮时期，你在上学时接触到一些西方现代运动的观念吗？　　高炀：那时的老师是妥木斯，在学校也非常幸运的遇到了朝戈、刘永刚等受’85新潮影响下回去的老师，尤其朝戈和刘永刚对我的影响非常大——对个体形态上的表达。　　吴鸿：在新疆、云南，也包括你当时所在的内蒙等这些我们通常所说的所谓少数民族地区的艺术家们可能都会有一种使命感，即必须在创作中反映当地的具有少数民族特征的风土人情。这种题材的创作在当时的学院体系是很流行的。而今天我们回过头来再看你那个时期的作品时，可以发现，你在当时画的那些以少数民族为题材的画面中实际上已经吸收了当时一些八十年代比较鲜明的风格特征；画面的构成、包括对形象的处理，都能看出那个时期在绘画语言上受到了一些西方现代绘画的影响。　　高炀：对西方这些语言体系系统性的风格，在我们那个班里，或者说那个时代，已经是很突出的了。从17岁考美院时，我的作品是塞尚的风格，大学毕业后开始画一些肖像。我在班里面风格很突出，都说我把绘画画得和大师一样，我一直戴着“大师”的帽子，但是我对文艺复兴时期的绘画不太感兴趣，反而对印象派之后的兴趣非常大。　　吴鸿：实际上，我们所说的整个’85新潮时期是一个庞大的体系，很多我们以前没有见到的东西当时都算是新潮，包括很多模仿西方印象派之前包括文艺复兴时期的东西，这些东西在当时都算新潮。可以说我们当时对于现代艺术的理解只是一个模糊的概念，每个人只能按照自己的兴趣来发展自己的风格。你后来去中央美院研修班是哪一年？
　　高炀：90年大学毕业后，91年正式入校。
　　吴鸿：听说当时在美院主要是葛鹏仁先生教你们？我以前和葛鹏仁先生也有过一些交流，从他自己的研究生时期开始，就对绘画语言发展到现在的这套体系已经开始有比较深的怀疑。那么，他这些观点当时在教学中对你们有没有影响？　　高炀：当然有影响，举一个例子，他说：“我是在中国被体制，还有外界的艺术挤在中间类型里的艺术家，我好多心血都放在教育上，我可能在某些方面给我的学生起了一个（从苏联那套拔出来）作用，外面有很大的天地去发展，个性很重要。”这是他说的原话。　　吴鸿：但是当时去中央美院读助教研修班的学生中，大多数人是认为中央美院的写实性绘画技法更加正统一些，很多人实际上是出于这个想法去中央美院进修的。那么我不知道你当初的动机是什么？　　高炀：我恰恰不是，大学时代没有圆美术学院这个梦，我要来美术学院学最好的东西。但是来了以后发现美院里面有很多派，每个老师之间的风格差异也很大。我在中央美院期间，主要是葛鹏仁先生对我启发很大，他说我的性格很像表现主义，很有酣畅的北方人性格，说我不是很理性的人，在他的启发下，所以我一下子发挥得很好。但是美院给我的教育，我认为并不是我理想当中的美院，不是我心目中所追求的感觉。　　吴鸿：我想，葛鹏仁先生给你最大的影响就是教给你一种对待艺术的态度，而并不是把艺术作为一种工具或者是一种手段，是要求“艺术”要和艺术家自身的内心能够有沟通的桥梁。　　高炀：其实那个时候我很模糊，但是通过在中央美术学院的学习，反而给了我明确的目标。这就是“艺术”一定要表现自己真实的感受，在风格和手段上要和别人不一样。　　并非我的东村　　吴鸿：美院毕业之后你就没有再回内蒙，而是当时就选择留在东村？　　高炀：毕业以后就留下来，张洹是我在中央美院助教进修班的同学，他先去了东村，他问我毕业了是要回内蒙，还是有什么新的想法或者和我们一起去东村。当时在长城饭店那一代，他拉起一个旗杆，他说：“高炀我们一起在北京打一个天地，形成另外一个趋势，我们要搞东村”。这就是当时“东村”的雏形。　　记得当时在东村住的第二个星期，我太太去看我，她说这里住着这么多底层艺术家、非知识分子型艺术家（这些艺术家都是高考落榜生、流浪汉），他们的艺术都是带有“泼皮”气质的艺术。
　　吴鸿：他们更可能是一些艺术狂热分子。而你从四年本科教育加上美院助教研修班的学习，相当于现在的研究生教育，一下子进入到那个群体里面，当时应该还是有一些来自心理上的压力的。　　高炀：主要是不太自然，他们都很敏感，问我是哪里的。而我在那个环境也一点都不自然，因为我来北京的主要目的就是想成就童年的梦想。他们的革命冲动使我的心里有点胆怯，我当时的艺术判断力也不大，对于东村我觉得似乎像您刚才说的更具狂热性，血气方刚的艺术家家都在那里。
　　吴鸿：我们现在回过头看，当时在东村的艺术家里面，后来很多人都是以行为艺术来出名的，那么你当时在和他们交流的过程中有没有受到他们的影响？　　高炀：不止是受到影响，我也参与做了一些行为，也脱了衣服……。但我坚持架上绘画还有一个原因，我个人认为当时在东村确实聚集了一些不研究绘画的艺术家，这与他们没有受过过系统的专业教育经历有关系，而我在北京读了一些西方的当代主义实验性的书，我没有放弃架上绘画，是因为我受的教育太深，所以在东村我还仍然在进行着绘画的实践，距离就自然而然形成了。　　吴鸿：你在东村期间一直在坚持绘画？
　　高炀：一直坚持。
　　吴鸿：同时也参与了他们的活动？
　　高炀：参与，但是做的比较少，因为我注意力不在那个方面。我和张洹、马六明等人之间私人交情很好，大家有什么都互相照顾，但是艺术上有保留意见。我的性格有一点内向，不像他们那么积极，而且他们那个方式是无产阶级的方式，我或多或少带点小资产阶级艺术家的方式。注重个性很重要，他们那个群体集体意识很强，有点像文革那个时候的方式……
　　吴鸿：那么你在参与他们的活动的过程当中，这种活动对你绘画本身的实践，和你对于绘画本体性的理解，有没有带来一些影响？
　　高炀：影响非常大，通过他们的作品我更加确定我自己。因为我那时候有种预感，行为可能急功近利，会很快成名，我现在想起来他们曾经以为中国社会当时特别需要这么一种非常强烈的行为方式来表达自己，就像中国的商业绘画一样。
　　吴鸿：谈到这个问题，我们似乎有必要对“行为艺术”这种对于艺术的态度简单做一个回顾。早年的维也纳行动派，他们要表现的是对于当时艺术的体制化、商业化倾向提出一种反叛的姿态。他们认为，“艺术”是一个过程，这个过程结束之后的艺术作品也就消失了，“作品”本身是无法进入博物馆来陈列，无法被收藏家收藏，所以，它是用这种极端的反叛来回归艺术的本体精神。
　　那么现在的问题是，为什么在九十年代初期，在东村，当时有这样一群人以一种群体化的方式来呈现这种身体性的艺术表达方式？（在八十年代，很多行为艺术作品实际上还是以个体化的方式来实施的）。实际上，这里面还是有很强的意识形态的因素在里面，它不仅仅是对于艺术语言自身的思考，这些实践中，包括用自己的身体来对体制、对于我们所遵循的社会道德观提出挑战。我们现在回头看那段时间的经历，它更大的意义是使我们艺术生态更加多元化。所以，从这个意义上来理解，我想，那段经历对你而言，最大的收获即在于你内心对于艺术本体意义的理解更加个人化了。
　　高炀：近几年冷静下来想，它的意义如果有学术价值，那就是冲击力非常大。因为那个时候国人没有见过这么标新立异的事，在那个年代对于脱裤子的行为艺术是非常震惊的，活生生的人堆在一起，当时大家想做就做，没有想到之后的影响这么大。当然每个人的说法不一样，我亲身参与了那段历史，我就以一个幕后者、参与者方式进行的。我不是最前面的，也不是最后的，我是属于中间的。　　我能真实面对我的绘画就是从捡垃圾开始
　　吴鸿：当时你在东村期间创作的那批利用一些废弃材料制作的作品是与你们在东村的经历有关系？　　高炀：有直接关系。我在东村直接受到生存上的问题，给自己身份定位的问题。我周围住的环境当中垃圾很多，那个时候在东村里也接触了来自五湖四海的前卫艺术家。他们告诉我信息，艺术要和社会有关系，那个时候对艺术的看法突然有最大的感觉，就是要和自己的内心靠在一起，更真实一些。记得我每天提着一个包拣垃圾，上午六点多钟去捡农民丢掉的垃圾，拣回来洗干净处理掉，再经过特殊材料用颜料整合，每天做这个。　　我想我能真实面对我的绘画就是从捡垃圾开始。因为经济原因也是一个限制，包括去意大利还是把垃圾系列的作品延续了一段时间，又做了两年。　　吴鸿：我非常理解你这批作品的思路。这也使我想起2002年的时候在世纪坛有一个法国的展览，我觉得那个展览很重要，但是因为它和中国当下的现实不是很合拍，所以那个展览受到的关注很少。那个展览就是法国新现实主义的一个作品展。法国新现实主义产生于20世纪60年代，是随着工业文明的发展而产生的一种新的意识形态。艺术家在当代的“自然”中寻找新的方向，这个当代的自然，就是机械的、工业的和广告的洪流，它是现代工业文明高度发展的文化产物。艺术家将天然或人造材料、物体或碎片、工业废弃物、社会流行符号等因素重新装配组织，甚至利用一些广告牌，不断去贴、撕及自然风化留下一些痕迹，形成新的艺术概念。还有意大利的贫困艺术，包括日本的物派艺术，我觉得这些发生在不同国家中的艺术现象都在用不同的方式在强调，艺术应该从神圣的光环里面走出来，和日常中的生活发生关系……
　　高炀：是的。我在那个时候经常和一些艺术家朋友喝酒，我的性格开始变，变得更内向，而且有些玩世不恭。这些，都在我的那些作品中有所体现。
　　吴鸿：刚才我们一起看了你当时的那批作品展览的录像带资料，展览的现场来了不少现在已经非常有名了的评论家。你们当时具体在谈什么，声音已经听得不是很清楚，但是从他们画面上比划的姿势可以看出来，他们更多的可能是理解成你在把材料当成颜料在用，更多的是在关注画面的构成形式。实际上，以材料和肌理的方式实际上可以使作品再走向立体化，向装置类去过渡。
　　高炀：他们当时确实不太了解我的心态创作，这些作品对我而言，实际上是一个对于我自己在那个时段里生存状态的真实记录。我后来也确实尝试过一些装置性的作品。
　　吴鸿：这种材料本身，包括这种材料的组合方式与艺术家在这个阶段的生存状态以及在这种生存状态下所表现出来的社会性关系都是有一定关联的。你当时创作的那批作品，关注点其实并不是要怎样去丰富画面的材料、丰富画面的表现肌理，而是想通过这种方式把你处的生活状况反映在作品当中。　　高炀：当时就是想反映这么一种方式，那个时候我更多考虑的是良心上有种负罪感。原先的学校不给我发工资了，我也准备不回内蒙去了，爱人那边要寄生活费给我。这是第一次体验到孤立无援的状态。所以那个时候在东村，就是进入了社会的最底层，但思想意识形态是最崇高的。社会也把我们全部抛弃了，在东村住的时候，我的同学都离婚了，家庭也不要了，孩子也都跑了。
　　吴鸿：当时这种状况持续了多长时间？
　　高炀：三年。　　游离的文化之旅——意大利　　吴鸿：你去意大利是哪年？　　高炀：1997年。去意大利以后，我的生活状态开始有了好转，有很好的工作室。我当时在都灵的一个山区里有一间200平米大的工作室。我到意大利的那一年的下半年，中国的艺术也开始受到国外的关注。我去意大利的第二年，威尼斯双年展展出了有史以来最大的一次关于中国当代艺术的展览，其中汇集了很多东村的作品。所以这个点恰好汇集在一起，第二年我在意大利有了一些名望，很多艺术家都知道我是从中国来的。
　　吴鸿：上个世纪八、九十年代，有很多中国艺术家去了西方，这确实是一个很意思的现象，我想，大致可以分为以下这几种类型。
　　第一种情况是，艺术家在出国之前对西方艺术的理解可能最多只停留在现代主义艺术时期，到了西方以后，觉得已经进入了后现代阶段的整个西方艺术生态与我们在国内的理解是截然不同的，有的人就觉得很难进入到这么一个语境里，只能以在街头画素描为生，一直到现在，还有很多在西方的艺术家还是以这个为生。　　另外的极端就是像黄永砯、蔡国强他们很快地能够融入到西方的后现代主义的语境里，已经进入了西方的主流艺术系统中了。　　在这期间还有很多艺术家是处于这两极之间。有些艺术家去西方大量参观博物馆，他们的绘画语言或者延续古典艺术的方式，也能给自己找到一个位置。
　　高炀：我个人认为，我去了西方最大的发现就是，西方人对中国的艺术并不陌生。八十年代黄永砯、星星画派等，都给他们打了中国符号的牌。
　　吴鸿：西方艺术界对于中国身份的艺术家可能会有一种期待，这种期待里面可能要包含一些意识形态，包括地域、文化等这些因素在里面，但在你的作品中我觉得这些东西很少能够看到。
　　高炀：我进入中国当代艺术界，恰恰是中国最早的那批做当代艺术的都成气候了，我当时考虑中国当代艺术有没有路可走了？我始终带着这个问号来到西方，我发现，他们的艺术越来越个体化，走向一种更个性、更实验性的艺术生态。　　像黄永砯他们可能在国内已经做得就是中国方式的当代艺术，所以在西方一下就可以融入进去。我带着这些画过去，我听到的声音是，你怎么和中国之前这些艺术家做得不一样，你这个从哪里来的“中国艺术家”，好象不是大部分艺术家那样的。因为在意大利的好多画廊中他们已经成名了。所以，西方人对于我的作品，他们没法判断，判断不了。　　吴鸿：所以我刚才说，西方艺术界在你的作品里面很难能够体会到他们所希望的期待。　　高炀：经过这么多年在意大利扎根，他们了解到，原来中国的艺术家不是一类的。目前很多西方人仅仅只是发现了其中某一个类型，这里面和很多评论家及一些机构体制有关。而我是按照这种个人化的方式里进行自己的艺术实践，也是和我们作为一个中国人对于意大利艺术家的期待是不一样的。我就是想通过自己的方式，不停地告诉他们中国还有很多优秀的艺术家， 我就是想揭示这种东西，我始终没有放弃自己的这种想法，只是在某一个阶段有变化。
　　吴鸿：从与你谈话到现在，我们可以做一个简单的回顾，实际上在这个回顾的过程当中，我发现了一个特点：从你在接受学院式的教育期间，到你在东村期间，以及你在意大利生活的这段期间，你都是在按照自己的方式去理解艺术，从而似乎都与你当时所处的环境有那么一点“不合拍”。我不知道如何去评价这一点，但是，我想，这也是决定了你的艺术走到今天这一步的一个重要的原因，我们现在来看你现在这个阶段的作品，这种个人化的风格特征更加鲜明，似乎在刻意地与周围的人，甚至是和美术史中可以参照的对象都在保持着某种距离，实际上在你早年的艺术经历中就已经埋下了伏笔。这就是你在每个环境中都可以近距离地去欣赏别人，但是又在和他们谨慎地保持着某种距离，保持着自己内心对于艺术的某种固执。这种“固执”，可能会毁掉一个一流的艺术家，但是也可能会造就一个大师。　　另类的“迷失”　　吴鸿：你现在创作的“迷失的头像”这个系列是从哪一年开始的？
　　高炀：从2003年开始一直画到现在。
　　吴鸿：“迷失的头像”这个意象性的概念是不是更多地在象征着你漂移在东、西方两个文化体系之间，对于自我身份的困惑？
　　高炀：从身份的怀疑到对人的生存的怀疑，迷失找不到方向，我一直游离在对身份判断、艺术判断上面。
　　吴鸿：这种状态不是把你对于艺术的理解体现在某一件作品上面，而是把艺术作为一种生活必需品，把绘画当成日记的方式来完成。
　　高炀：有很多形式，我把一天最好的状态都给它。举个例子比如说上午六点起床洗漱，我举行这个仪式一直到面对我的画，一直到我满意以后才能做其它的事。这个时光可能谁也不知道，只有我才自己知道，我操纵它来做这个事情。
　　吴鸿：虽然这种方式按照我们定义的艺术史的方式来理解，应该是一种很纯粹的艺术家的方式，纯粹的面对自己的画面，然后把画面作为和自己的思想进行沟通的这么一种方式。那么在这种工作状态下，2003年你又回到了国内，而这个时候国内的艺术发展到这个阶段已经越来越商业化，而且这种商业化的方式和我们对于“艺术”原初的理解已经越来越远。你在这个时候回来和国内的整个艺术环境是否又觉得有一些隔阂？
　　高炀：我回来本来想制造一种只属于我个人的作品，就像找一个保护伞那样找到可以保护自己的东西。　　吴鸿：你是否感觉只有这样的修炼才能让你的内心非常坚强。
　　高炀：这个坚强来自于哪？我突然找到什么安慰？我还在这么真实地面对画布，我有的时候很安慰。我最多的兴趣就是关注我在这两个月的艺术可能和我过去的作品又有一次超越，我的乐趣在这方面，好多人都不理解我的乐趣。我的兴趣已经转到绘画本身，而完全不在于你卖了多少。最近可能要画下一批作品，把去年的作品又超越了，我每天能体验到的这种自我乐趣特别强烈。但是这种心态有的时候也扭曲，外面的世界不是我想的那样，我也希望有一个和外界成功的交流，但我发现越来越远了，他们关心的恰恰不是我这样的艺术家。
　　吴鸿：实际上中国的当代艺术发展到现在已经越来越娱乐化，整个艺术的生态已经越来越时尚化。艺术家也越来越社会明星化。
　　高炀：后来有段时间怀疑我艺术上出了问题，我也经常反思一下现在的精神价值。但现在我觉得不是我的艺术上出问题了，而是对待艺术的心态，自己要回到这个状态。我觉得只有这样，你的艺术才可能长久。我认为我的艺术能保持这种长久的想法就是这个原因造成的。我能够回到我的状态当中，我总觉得如果要是迎合了他们，可能我十年以前已经就做了。
　　吴鸿：实际上现在我们需要有一种对于流行趣味的怀疑，如果要是没有这几年艺术市场非常繁荣的过程，我想对于中国当代艺术中很多太流行化的趣味，大家会有一些反思的态度。但是，现在这几年艺术市场繁荣状况，很多艺术家包括很多知名的艺术家，他们的作品和这个市场的关系变成了供不应求，没有人会静下心来反思这个问题，这个问题已经被掩盖掉了，而在这样的状况下，中国的当代艺术已经越来越变成样式化的“制造”了。而对于你来说，我似乎觉得你想创造出一种方式，一种有可能绕开西方半个多世纪以来现代主义绘画的所有经验的方式，一种只能属于你自己的方式。
　　高炀：我是一个不合时宜的艺术家，在西方我有非常好的朋友，但没有艺术上非常好的沟通者。因为在西方我认为也是这个游戏规则，他们把商业看得很重要，而且只是比中国的路子走的更老辣一些。　　所以去了西方我又是孤单的，我面对他们那些语言，巴黎的展览我经常去看，我面对他们那些作品就知道这是西方人的权力，在我这里的答案非常明确。我在找中国大师的权力，我高旸的权力在哪里？我四十多岁才发现我的权力还是在这里，还是在我的绘画作品里。
　　所以我们今天讨论的“不合时宜”是很多原因造成的，不是我艺术本身的问题。艺术还是给了我一些明确的东西，它最长久，我一定要用它来证明我的艺术不是弱的。这个反馈心理特别强，我们年轻的时候这种愤青心理还带着，我要证明我对艺术的观点不是大家所说的那些，只是没有完整地加入到你们的游戏规则当中。　　现在什么是成功的艺术家这个问题，成功就是在自己的领域研究一点有价值的东西，是一种使命感，不取决于钱或者是名望之类的东西，我对于绘画的态度还是严肃的、严谨的甚至是试验性的。　　时间：　　地点：北京，通州，宋庄 高炀工作室I Am not an Artist appropriated with the "Trend"An Interview with Gao YangWu HongDate: Nov. 15th, 2007Venue: Gao Yang's Studio, Songzhuang Village, Tongzhou, Beijing
Not an Ideal CollegeWu Hong: When did you start to learn painting and when did your begin to receive professional art training?Gao Yang: I began to study painting at the age of around 8. Later I was determined to be a student in the China Central Academy of Fine Arts. However, after trying for several times, I failed in the entrance examinations （of cultural courses）. In 1986, I went to the Arts Department of Inner Mongolia Normal University and stayed there for four years.Wu Hong: when you were in university, it was a period called 85 New Wave Did you get to know some concepts called western modern movement? Gao Yang: At that time, my teacher was Tuo Musi, and I was also so lucky to meet Chao Ge, Liu Yonggang and some other teachers who returned to their posts under the influence of the 85 New Wave. Among those teachers, Chao Ge and Liu Yonggang influenced me tremendously, especially in the expression of individual morphology. Wu Hong: The artists living in Xinjiang, Yunnan and also in the Inner Mongolia where you stayed and those we usually referred to in the ethnical minorities inhabited regions might usually possesses a sense of mission, namely that is to reflect the natural conditions and social customs featuring characteristics of the ethnical groups in their art works. That kind of theme creation in artworks was very popular in the universities and colleges at that time. Today, when we review your works of that time, we feel that you virtually integrated some bright styles of the ;s in the paintings with the theme focusing on ethnical minorities' in addition, from the composition of the paintings, including the way you treat the images, we feel your painting language was more or less influenced by the western modern painting style. Gao Yang: In terms of the western style of the painting language systems, it was prevalent in our class, or you may say at that time. When I took the entrance examination for an art college at the age of 17, my painting style was of Paul Cezanne (), after graduation, I started to paint portraits. In my class, I was outstanding in style. My peers said that my paintings were like those of masters. I had a nickname as master all the time. But, I was not interested in the renaissance paintings, instead, I found great interest in those after the impressionism period.
Wu Hong: In fact, the 85 New Wave we mentioned was a huge system, many things we had never seen at that time belonged to New Wave, including imitations of the works before the western impressionism and those of the renaissance. All those things were categorized under the New Wave. We may say that our understanding of the modern art at that time was merely a vaguer concept and everyone developed his or her own style with his or her own interest. By the way, in which year were you admitted to China Central Academy of Fine Arts?
Gao Yang: I graduated from university in 1990 and became a postgraduate in 1991.
Wu Hong: I am told that in the central academy you were mainly taught by Mr. Ge Pengren. I also had some contacts with Mr. Ge. Since he was a postgraduate, he has been doubtful of the system developed from painting language up to now. I just wonder if his point of view in his lectures ever influenced you.Gao Yang: Sure, I just give you an example. Once he said: I am an artist squeezed into the intermediate layer by the system and foreign art in China. I have devoted my life to art education and I might set up an example (drawn from Russia) to my student in some sense. Big room for development is beyond the school, individuality is vitally important. That was what he said at that time.Wu Hong: The majority of the students who went to the central academy as postgraduates for teaching assistants thought the realistic painting style was more original and traditional, and in fact, many people went there for training based on that thought. May I know your motive at that time?Gao Yang: I am an exception. I did not realize my dream to be a student in the central academy when I was at my college age. I just wanted to learn the best things in the central academy. After I went to the academy, I found there were so many different schools or genres, even the teachers differed greatly in the styles. When I was in the central academy, Mr. Ge Pengren enlightened me most, he told me that my personality was set for expressionism, embodying the straight-forward northern people's character but not so rational. Under his enlightenment, I suddenly made it so well. Yet the education I received in the academy was not what I exactly expected, and the academy was not like what it is in my mind. I didn't have the same feeling as what I pursued in my dream.
Wu Hong: I think the most important thing Mr. Ge Pengren taught you was the attitude toward art, but not something that make you regard it as a tool or a means. What he required was that there should be a bridge to favor the communication between the art and the heart of the artists. Gao Yang: As a matter of fact, at that time I was not so clear about what to do, it was the study in the central academy that made me have a specific aim. Namely, I realized that art must express one's true feeling and the art of an individual must be different from that of others in style and techniques.
Not My Dongcun VillageWu Hong: After you graduated from the central academy, you did not return to Inner Mongolia, Did you choose to stay in Dongcun Village upon graduation?
Gao Yang: Yes, I stayed there since graduation. Zhang Huan，my classmate in the training class for teaching assistants in the academy, went to Dongcun Village first. He asked me if I would return to Inner Mongolia after graduation, or if I had some new ideas or I could go with them to Dongcun Village. At that time, he raised a flag mast nearby Great Wall Hotel. He persuaded me: Gao Yang, we create a new world together in Beijing, form a new wave, and we start our career in Dongcun. That was the embryonic period of Dongcun Village.I remember it was the second week after I stayed in Dongcun, my wife went to see me. She said there lived so many understratum artists and non-intellectual artiststhose failed in college entrance-examinations or even vagrants, and that was why the art works there were tinted with a kind of rascal
strain. Wu Hong: They might be more properly called fanatical funs for art. Your 4 year college studies plus the training class period in central academy was almost equal to the present postgraduate schooling. With that educational background when you joined the group at that time, you should have some psychological pressure.Gao Yang: Mainly uneasy, all of them were sensitive and kept asking me where I was from. I felt uneasy at all under that situation. My purpose of coming to Beijing was to make my childhood's dream come true. Their revolutionary uprush scared me. At that time, I was not so insightful for art judgment. It seems to me that Dongcun Village was more fanatical, as you said, all artists there were all hot-blooded.Wu Hong: Let's take a review on the artists in Dongcun Village, many of them became known for behavior art now. Were you influenced by them when you communicated with them at that time?Gao Yang: much more than being influenced, I also joined them in some actions, like undressing, I also joined them in some actions, like undressing. But there was another reason I kept on painting (by my easel), personally speaking, I thought there really gathered some artists, although they did not study painting because they lacked a systematic and professional training. I read in Beijing some western pioneering books on modernism. The reason I did not give up painting by my easel was because I got much more influenced in my extensive education. Only because I continued to hone my skill in painting in Dongcun Village, a distance naturally spaced between others and me.Wu Hong: You have kept on painting all the time in Dongcun?Gao Yang: Always.Wu Hong: And meanwhile you joined them in their actions?Gao Yang: Yes, but I did less, for my interest was not there. The personal relationship among Zhang Huan, Ma Liuming and me was fairly good, we took care of each other when in need, but stick to our own opinion when we talked about art. I am a little bit introverted, not as active as they were. Their manner was revolutionary, but mine more or less like something related to that of petty bourgeoisie artists. Giving full play to individuality was important to me, but they had a strong collective awareness, something like that they formed in the Cultural Revolution periodWu Hong: Well, when you joined them in their actions, how much do you think those actions influenced you on your painting practice or your understanding of the noumenon of the painting?Gao Yang: It influenced me greatly. Through their works I reconfirmed my own style. I had a presentiment: behavior art might bring quick success, instant benefit and fast-growing reputation. Now I still remember vividly that they expressed themselves in a very strong and intensive manner which they think, was urgently needed in the Chinese society at that time, just like the commercial paintings in China.Wu Hong: While talking about this, it is necessary for us to review briefly the behavior artan attitude toward art. In the early days, the Vienna Actionists wanted to bring forward a bolshy stance against the systemization and commercialization of art at that time. They believed art as a process, after the process, the art work was finished and would disappear. A piece of art itself could not be displayed in a museum, nor collected by a collector. Therefore they revolted in the extreme to show their determination to bring back the spirit of the art noumenon.Now the question is why in the early 1990s there were still some people displaying art with their bodies in groups in Dongcun Village? (Actually in the 1980s, many behavior art works were conducted by individuals). In fact, there existed a strong sense of ideology in addition to the consideration of art language itself. In practice, they used their bodies to challenge the system and social morality we all followed. When we review that period of history and experience, we realize that the more magnificent thing is the art expression was diversified. From this point of view, I believe, that experience to you is you had a better understanding of the art noumenon in a more individual way at that time, which should be regarded as your biggest gain.Gao Yang: I considered it in a more rational way in recent years, if we say it had some academic value, we refer to the extraordinary impact power. At that time, we Chinese had never seen anything unconventional or unorthodox. At that time, it was startling to see some behavior art involving those showing off buttocks. Lively people piled together and did what they wanted. We never thought it was so influential. Of course, different people have different stories. I personally experienced that period of history, I participated as someone behind the curtain and, meanwhile as a participant. I was not at the forefront, neither in the last. I was in the middle.
I Faced my Painting in a Reality Way Starting from Rubbish CollectingWu Hong: You created some art works with wastes during your stay in Dongcun Village, does that have anything to do with your experience in Dongcun?Gao Yang: Yes, it does. In Dongcun Village I had some problems related to my subsistence and to my social status orientation. In the surroundings of my house there were much rubbish and I had contacts with some avant-garde artists. They brought me information and told me that art should have some ties with the society. At that time, I suddenly realized that art should be true and close to my heart, that was my biggest sensation towards art. I still remember that I brought a bag with me to pick out useful things from rubbish, every morning around 6 o'clock, I collected the things discarded as rubbish by the farmers, then I washed them clean, painted them with special material, I repeated doing that everyday.
I think I can to face my painting in a reality way due to the fact that I start from collecting rubbish. Financial problem, I mean short of money, was another reason which was also a restriction to me when I was in Italy where I continued to do my rubbish series art works for another two years.Wu Hong: I fully understand your way of thinking towards the art works. This also reminds me of a French exhibition in the China Century Monument in 2002. I think the exhibition was very important, but unfortunately, the exhibition was not in harmony with the reality of China, only a few people show concern for it. The exhibition was a neorealist art works show. The neorealism in France initiated in the 1960s, it was a new ideology developed with the industrial civilization. The artists tried to find their new orientation in the modern nature which was in a surging wave of machines, industries and advertisement. The neorealism was a cultural product of the highly developed modern industrial civilization. The artists re-assembled such elements as natural or artificial material, objects, debris, industrial waste and popular social signs, and they even made use of billboards, glued and torn objects and some traces weathered by nature to form a new art concept. The art phenomena occurred in different countries, including the Poor Art in Italy and the Mono-Ha Art in Japan, all emphasized in different ways that art should step out from its holy aura and be related with the daily life.Gao Yang: Yes. At that time, I often drank with artist friends. My personali I was more introverted, and a little bit of cynicism. All those have been reflected in my works created at that time.Wu Hong: Just now we enjoyed the video film of your
I have noticed that some now-famous critics appeared in the exhibition. What were you talking about? I can't hear it clearly. From their gestures towards your painting, I think they might apprehend that you used material as pigment and they paid more attention to the composition of the painting. Virtually, by using material and texture, your art works were made three-dimensioned and became something like installations.
Gao Yang: They really did not fully understand my attitude towards art creation. To me, those art works were true records of my subsistence during that period of my life. Later on, I also once tried to do some installation art works.Wu Hong: Such things as the material itself, the combination of the material, the survival conditions of the artists at that time and the social relations resulted from the survival conditions are interactively related. When you were creating the art works, your attention was not to enrich the content of your paintings by material utilization and texture expression, but to reflect your life in the works in a special manner.Gao Yang: I really tried to express myself in a special way. At that time, the school I graduated stopped paying me salary, I was not to return to Inner Mongolia and my wife had to remit me money for my living. I wondered in my mind if I was guilty. That was the first time I experienced being isolated and helplessness. I was at the bottom stratum in Dongcun Village at that time, yet my mentality and ideology were lofty. The society abandoned us when we were in Dongcun Village, my classmates divorced, families dissolved and children were gone. Wu Hong: How long does that situation last? Gao Yang: Three years.Dissociated Culture Journey to ItalyWu Hong: In which year did you go to Italy?Gao Yang: In 1997. After I went to Italy, my life turned better, I owned a very nice studio covering 200 square meters in the mountainous area of Turin at that time. In the second half of the year I settled in Italy, Chinese art got more attention from the world. In the year followed, the largest ever since exhibition in history was held on contemporary Chinese art during Venice Biennale, many works displayed there were from Dongcun Village. It was really lucky that many good things happened together. I had some fame in the following year and many local artists knew I was from China. Wu Hong: Many Chinese artists went to Europe in the 1980s and 1990s. That was a very interesting phenomenon. In terms of their achievements and living conditions, I think the artists can be divided into such groups as below:
The first group: Before going abroad, their understanding of the western art remained at the period of modernism. After they arrived in Europe, they felt the western art eco-system in the post-modernism period was totally different from their understanding about it acquired in China. It was very hard for some of them to adapt themselves to such a language situation, and therefore they could only make a living by drawing sketches in street. Up to now, there are still some artists in Europe living on sketching.Some of the extremely successful artists like Huang Yongping and Cai Guoqiang quickly integrated themselves into the art language situation of the post-modernism. They have already merged into the mainstream of the art society in Europe. There are also many artists at the position between these two layers. They visited many western museums and have kept their art language in line with that of the classic art. Anyway, they can find a position for themselves in the art society.
Gao Yong: I personally believe that the biggest discovery I have during my stay in Europe is that the Europeans are not unfamiliar with Chinese art. In the 1980s, Huang Yongping, those belonged to Star Art School and some other artists all marked themselves with Chinese origin.
Wu Hong: The western art circle might have an expectation for the artists from China. The expectation consists of some ideological, regional and cultural factors, but I don't think I can see much of those things in your art works. Gao Yang: When I was recognized by the contemporary art circle in China, those earliest artists who did contemporary art were already mature and influential. I wondered at that time if there was still a way for the contemporary Chinese art to go. I brought my question to Europe and I found their art more individualized, developing towards an art eco-system featuring something more experimental with strong personality.
Maybe the artists like Huang Yongping and others practiced contemporary art in a Chinese way in C therefore they could integrate themselves quickly into the western art society shortly after they arrived in Europe. I brought my paintings there, and the comments I heard were: you did something different from those done by the Chinese artists previously arrived here and where you were from and you were not a Chinese artist like Fang Lijun. The previously arrived Chinese artists made a name for themselves in many Italian galleries. The Europeans did not know how to judge my works and they simply did not understand me.
Wu Hong: Just as what I said now, the western art circle could hardly find what they expected in your art works.Gao Yang: I stayed in Italy for so many years and the local people realized the Chinese artists were not of the same type. But there are still many of Europeans only know one of the Chinese art genres for it has something to do with the views of the critics and institutional system. I have practiced my art in a personalized way and the Italian artists have a different expectation for me, although I am also a Chinese. I just want, through my own way, to tell them continuously that there are many prominent artists in China. I just want to tell them this, I have never given up my idea, but some times my way of doing so varies with different periods.Wu Hong: We have talked for a long time, now we can make a short review. Actually in the review I found something interesting: you have always tried to understand art in your own way, from the period that you were receiving college education, up to the time you stayed in Dongcun Village or your living in Italy. That is why you seem to be out of step with the situations at different times. I really don't know how to comment on this, but I do believe that that is an important reason with which you can keep your art creation style to the present time. Now let's have a look at the art works you have created recently, your personalized style is obviously clear. It seems that you purposely keep a distance from your peers or even those in art history whom we might use to make comparisons. In fact we see some hints in your early works. While observing and spotting at any person in a short distance in any circumstances, you keep a distance carefully from them so as to maintain your own stubborn persistence towards art in your heart. This stubbornness can either destroy a first-class artist, or create a giant in the art. Abnormally bewilderedWu Hong: When did you start to create the Bewildered, head portrait/ A Confused Face, portrait/Lost Head Portrait/Lost Head Portrait series?Gao Yang: I have painted them since 2003.Wu Hong: Does the imago concept of the painting more or less symbolize your confusedness of your own status while you are drifting between the cultural systems in the east and west? Gao Yang: I have been suspicious of my status and my life. I was too bewildered sometimes to find my orientation or way out. I have been always wondering how to make judgment on my status and my art works.Wu Hong: This state does not make you incarnate your understanding of art in a single piece of painting, but requires you to regard art as daily necessities for your life or rather, to make paintings as others keep their diaries.Wu Hong: This state makes you regard art as your daily life necessity. You make paintings as others keep their diaries. And your understanding of art is not incarnated in some certain piece of art.
Gao Yang: Art has many forms. I give the best time to art. For instance, I get up at 6 o'clock in the morning, and then I hold a special ceremony till I face my painting. I will not do other things before I am satisfied with my painting. Maybe no body knows I have such a time, as that only I myself know about it. I am the only one who knows this. I manipulate the time to do the ceremony.Wu Hong: To understand this according to our understanding of the defined art history, it was a pure way of an artist, a way that an artist faces his own painting and makes the painting communicate with his mind. Well, under the circumstances, why did you return home in 2003? At that time, the art in China was in a period of commercialization, the way of doing art in a commercialized manner drove us further and further from our original understanding of the art. When you come back at that time, did you feel that there is a gap between you and the overall art situation?
Gao Yang: I was back because I wanted to create something belonging to myself personally. I was trying to find something like a protecting umbrella with which I can protect myself.Wu Hong: Do you think only through that kind of austere refinement can you make yourself more strong and adamant psychologically. Gao Yang: Where does the adamancy come from? What kind of comfort I found all of a sudden? I am still facing my painting realistically, sometimes I feel very comfortable and at ease. My interest has been mainly focused on the possible surpassing of my creation in the recent two months over my previous ones. That was my delight that many other people don't understand. My interest has switched to the painting process, not the sum of money I sold them. I will soon start to make new paintings, with the hope to outperform the works of last year. The self-amusement I feel everyday is very strong, yet sometimes my attitude twists because the outside world is not like what I have imagined. I also hope I can have a successful communication with outside world, but I feel the distance farther widens. What they are concerned about is not the artist like me.
Wu Hong: Actually, the contemporary art in China is more amusement-natured at this stage in its development, the overall eco-system of the art is more fad-oriented and the artists are more social star-like.Gao Yang: later on there was a time I doubted if there was any problem in my art, I often re-consider our ethical and moral values. But now I don't think there is any problem with my art but my attitude to the art. I should bring back my right and active attitude. I feel only in this way can we keep our art works alive longer. I do believe that this is also the reason why my art works have survived longer. I can resume my attitude for I think if I knew I could cater for them, I would have done it ten years ago.Wu Hong: In deed, now we should take a doubtful attitude toward art popularity and amusement. If we don't have an over-exceedingly prosperity in the art market during its process of development, I think people will reconsider the phenomena of the contemporary Chinese art in its way to abnormal popularity. In recent years, the art market is too much prosperous, the works of so many artists, including recognized ones, become short of supply, people can not calm down to ponder over the problem, thus the problem is covered. Under the circumstances, the contemporary Chinese art is degenerated into a patterned manufacturing. But as to you, it seems that you want to create a new way that steers clear of all the methods from the experiences of the painting in modernism accumulated in half a century in Europe and that only belongs to yourself.Gao Yang: I am not an artist appropriated with the trend。In Europe I had many good friends, but there were not many I could communicate with smoothly on the subject of art, for I believe there is also the same rule of the game even in Europe. They value more the commercialization of art works and they are more skillful in doing so. I went to Europe and I felt lonely when I was there, I have to face what they say about my works, in terms of art language. I often visited art exhibitions in Paris and when I saw their works I knew where their power lay. I know my answer was definitely correct. I am looking for the power of Chinese masters of art. Where my power isa guy called Gao Yang? When I was over 40 I found my power is still herein my paintings.Many reasons made us talk about not appropriate with the trend today. That's not only because of my art itself. The art has given me something obviously. It can last long and I will prove my art expression is not weak. The psychological feedback was terrifically strong and I still possess the righteous and rebellious mentality I had when I was young. I will prove that my viewpoint of art is much beyond what people mentioned. The only reason for this is I did not accept their rules of the game.
Now the question is what a successful artist is. Success means you have something valuable achieved in your research. It is something in a sense of mission, but not money or fame and the like. My attitude towards painting is serious, prudent and even experimental.
(Revised by Gao Jing) "Sono un artista "inappropiato"Intervista a Gao Yangdi Wu HongStudio di Gao Yang, Songzhuang, Tongzhou, Pechino, 15 novembre 2007Una scuola tutt'altro che idealeWu Hong: Quando ti sei avvicinato alla pittura e, in particolare, quando ha preso avvio la tua formazione artistica?Gao Yang: Iniziai a studiare regolarmente pittura all'etàdi circa otto anni. Ero
determinato a sostenere l'esame di ammissione all'Accademia di Belle Arti, ma dopo numerosi tentativi falliti a causa dei test di cultura generale, nell'86 entrai alla Facoltàdi Belle Arti dell'UniversitàNormale della Mongolia Interna per un corso quadriennale.Wu Hong: Gli anni dell'università hanno coinciso con il periodo della Nouvelle Vague 1985. Nel corso dei tuoi studi, sei venuto in contatto con le idee dei movimenti contemporanei occidentali?Gao Yang: Tuo Musi fu il mio
all'università ebbi anche la fortuna d'incontrare Chao Ge, Liu Yonggang, tutti professori che erano stati influenzati dalla Nouvelle Vague '85, e che a loro volta ebbero su di me un forte ascendente, specie nella rappresentazione dei tratti dell'individuo.Wu Hong: In tutti i cosiddetti artisti delle minoranze, originari dello Xinjiang, dello Yunnan o della Mongolia Interna dove tu hai vissuto, si riscontra una sorta di missione, ovvero la necessitàdi esprimere attraverso il mezzo creativo usi e costumi tipici di quel particolare gruppo etnico. Questa produzione a tema era molto in voga nel sistema accademico del tempo, ma rivedendo oggi i tuoi lavori di quel periodo si puònotare come proprio quei quadri ispirati a temi caratteristici delle minoranze fossero di fatto già permeati di tratti stilistici distintivi degli anni '80, ivi compreso il modo di trattare la figura, tanto da rivelare già nel linguaggio pittorico di quel periodo certe suggestioni tipiche della pittura moderna occidentale. Gao Yang: Nella nostra classe, o per meglio dire in quell'epoca, era già evidente una tendenza sistematica verso certi linguaggi occidentali. A diciassette anni, dopo l'ammissione all'Accademia di Belle Arti, erano in molti a sostenere che dipingessi come i grandi maestri. Ho sempre portato il cappello di "maestro" senza aver mai nutrito particolare interesse per il Rinascimento, mentre al contrario forte è stata
l'attenzione per la scuola post-impressionista.Wu Hong: Il cosiddetto periodo della Nouvelle Vague 1985 è in realtà un sistema di enormi dimensioni, molte cose mai viste prima diventano in quel momento nuova corrente, incluso molte imitazioni del periodo antecendente all'impressionismo, incluso elementi dell'epoca rinascimentale, tutto viene inteso come una tendenza originale. Possiamo affermare che dell'arte moderna si aveva di fatto un'idea molto vaga e confusa, nell'ambito della quale ognuno poteva sviluppare un proprio stile sulla base del proprio personale interesse. Quando ti sei poi iscritto all'Accademia Centrale di Belle Arti?Gao Yang: Mi sono diplomato nel '90 e nel '91 sono entrato all'Accademia. Wu Hong: Ho sentito che all'Accademia fu tuo professore Ge Pengren, con il quale ho avuto in passato dei contatti. Come si desume dalla sua stessa ricerca, egli aveva già sollevato profonde perplessità sul processo di sviluppo del linguaggio pittorico dell'epoca. Questo suo punto di vista esercitò nella fase dell'insegnamento una qualche influenza su di voi?Gao Yang: Naturalmente sì, e faccio un esempio. Ge Pengren diceva: sono stato formato in Cina, ma nell'artista si trova compresso anche il mon ho concentrato gran parte dei miei sforzi sull'insegnamento, e in qualche modo ciò ha avuto un effetto (di matrice sovietica) sui miei studenti.. Fuori c'è tutto un mondo da sviluppare, l'individualità è importante." Questo è ciò che usava dire.Wu Hong: Ma la maggior parte degli studenti che allora frequentavano corsi specialistici di assistenza all'insegnamento presso l'Accademia di Belle Arti pensavano che il metodo della pittura realista impartito presso l'Accademia fosse il più ortodosso, e molti si sono iscritti lì a corsi specialistici proprio animati da questa convinzione. Quale fu la tua motivazione di allora?Gao Yang: Per me non fu affatto così. Ai tempi dell'università non esisteva il sogno di un circolo accademico, volevo entrare all'Accademia di Belle Arti per studiare il meglio. Ma una volta iscritto, mi resi conto che esistevano diverse scuole e grosse differenze stilistiche da un professore all'altro. In quel periodo, fu per me di grande ispirazione il maestro Ge Pengren, il quale riteneva che per temperamento fossi molto vicino all'espressionismo, con la giovialità tipica della gente del nord. Diceva che non ero un tipo ragionevole, crebbi grazie agli stimoli che ricevetti da lui. Non ritengo comunque che l'Accademia, per la formazione che riuscì a darmi, fu una scuola ideale, visto che non fu in grado di trasmettermi quelle emozioni di cui ero spiritualmente alla ricerca. Wu Hong: Penso che il maestro Ge Pengren ti insegnò soprattutto il modo di porti nei confronti dell'arte, e non d'intendere l'arte come strumento o come mezzo, esigendo piuttosto tra "l'arte" e l'io dell'artista un ponte di comunicazione.Gao Yang: Nella mia confusione di allora, lo studio presso l'Accademia riuscì ad indicarmi con chiarezza degli obiettivi, ovvero che 'l'arte" deve esprimere i propri reali sentimenti, utilizzando stile e tecniche distintivi da quelli altrui.Quel Villaggio Orientale che non mi appartenevaWu Hong: Terminati gli studi all'Accademia non sei più tornato in Mongolia Interna, decidesti allora di stabilirti al Villaggio Orientale?Gao Yang: Dopo il diploma mi fermai. Zhang Huan, che era mio compagno di corso, si trasferì per primo al Villaggio Orientale, e mi chiese quali fossero le mie intenzioni una volta terminati gli studi, ovvero se avessi intenzione di rientrare in Mongolia Interna oppure se avessi nuovi propositi o volessi andare con loro al Villaggio Orientale. Portò All'Hotel Great Wall l'asta di una bandiera e mi disse: "Gao Yang, dobbiamo creare un mondo qui a Pechino, dar forma a una nuova tendenza, dobbiamo realizzare il Villaggio Orientale". Questa fu la forma embrionale del Villaggio Orientale.Wu Hong: Forse loro erano principalmente dei fanatici dell'arte, mentre tu provenivi da quattro anni di studi superiori e da una specializzazione all'Accademia d'Arte, l'equivalente oggi di un master. All'improvviso ti sei ritrovato in mezzo a quel gruppo, sicuramente dovevi sentire dentro di te una certa ansietà.Gao Yang: Si trattava soprattutto di qualcosa di innaturale, erano tutti molto suscettibili, mi chiedevano da dove venissi. Per me, arrivato a Pechino per realizzare il mio sogno di bambino, quell'ambiente risultava tutt'altro che autentico. Il loro impulso rivoluzionario mi provocava una certa codardia, scarsamente dotato di un'autonoma capacità di giudizio in materia artistica. Probabilmente, come hai detto tu, esisteva verso il Villaggio Orientale uan sorta di fanatismo, tutti gli artisti più energici risiedevano là.Wu Hong: Diamo un altro sguardo al passato. Tra gli artisti del Villaggio Orientale molti si sono fatti un nome con la performance art. Ne sei mai stato influenzato nel contatto che hai avuto con loro?Gao Yang: Non solo ne sono stato influenzato, ma io stesso ho partecipato ad alcune performance, mi sono spogliato… Ma esiste un'altra ragione per la quale ho persistito nella pittura su cavalletto, personalmente ritengo che in quegli anni si concentrassero nel Villaggio Orientale artisti che non facevano ricerca in campo pittorico, non avendo ricevuto alcuna formazione specialistica e sistematica, mentre io a Pechino leggevo testi sugli aspetti sperimentali del modernismo occidentale. Non abbandonai la pittura su cavalletto a causa dei miei lunghi studi, per cui continuai a praticarla anche al Villaggio Orientale, così che naturalmente si creò una distanza tra di noi.Wu Hong: Nel Villaggio Orientale hai sempre dipinto?Gao Yang: Sì, sempreWu Hong: Allo stesso tempo prendevi parte alle loro attività?Gao Yang: Sì, ma non a molte perchè la mia concentrazione era rivolta nell'altra direzione. Avevo ottimi rapporti personali con Zhang Huan, Ma Liuming, eravamo sempre pronti a darci una mano, ma in campo artistico esitevano divergenze di opinione. Per natura introverso, non ero positivo come loro. Essi tendevano verso il proletariato, mentre io ero più un artista della piccola borghesia. L'individualità è fondamentale, ma nel loro circolo dominava una forte coscienza collettiva, simile allo spirito della Rivoluzione Culturale…Wu Hong: Nel momento in cui partecipavi alle loro attività, in che modo ne risultava influenzato il tuo dipingere e la tua comprensione del carattere intrinseco della pittura?Gao Yang: L'influenza fu enorme, perchè attraverso i loro lavori io definii ancora più profondamente me stesso. Avevo il presentimento che la performance avrebbe dato un successo facile. Ricordo ancora la loro convinzione che nella società cinese di allora ci fosse particolamente bisogno di esprimere se stessi attraverso performance di forte impatto, così come accade nella pittura commerciale cinese.Wu Hong: A questo proposito, occorre forse una veloce riflessione su questo particolare atteggiamento nei riguardi dell'arte che èla performance art. Nell'Azionismo viennese si voleva esprimere un atteggiamento di ribellione alla sistematizzazione e commercializzazione dell'arte del tempo, sostenendo che l'arte fosse un processo e che il prodotto artistico risultato al termine di tale processo dovesse essere distrutto. L' "opera" vera e propria non poteva entrare in un museo per essere esposta, nè venire custodita da collezionisti, ma solo attraverso questa estrema ribellione poteva ritornare allo spirito originario dell'arte.La domanda è: perchè agli inizi degli anni '90 nel Villaggio Orientale esisteva un gruppo di artisti che si serviva di una forma collettiva per presentare forme di espressione artistica basate sulla corporalità? (Negli anni '80 le opere di performance art si servivano di metodi individualisti). Di fatto qui esiste una forte componente ideologica la quale, non solo in merito al linguaggio dell'arte, ma nei metodi pratici adottati, incluso l'utilizzo del proprio corpo nei confronti del sitema, mette in discussione l'etica sociale alla quale obbediamo. Se volgiamo nuovamente lo sguardo a quella esperienza, vediamo come essa abbia arriccchito di sfaccettature il nostro atteggiamento artistico. E in quest'ottica, ritengo che, per quanto ti riguarda, il frutto piùconsistente sia stato l'individualitàattraverso la quale comprendere col tuo io il significato intrinseco dell'arte.Gao Yang: In questi ultimi anni di pacata riflessione, sono giunto alla conclusione che se essa ha avuto un valore accademico allora significa che la sua forza d'assalto fu molto forte, proprio perchè in quegli anni la gente non aveva mai visto nulla di così eterodosso, in quell'epoca togliersi i pantaloni in una performance era estremamente scioccante, ci si raggruppava, si faceva quello che si voleva, senza pensare all'impatto che certe azioni avrebbero poi avuto. Naturalmente ognuno la vede a suo modo, ho vissuto quell'esperienza in prima persona, agendo dietro le quinte. Non stavo in prima linea, nè nelle retrovie, mi trovavo nel mezzo.La mia pittura inizia dalla raccolta di rifiutiWu Hong: C'è un qualche rapporto tra la vostra esperienza e il fatto che le opere del periodo del Villaggio Orientale sono state realizzate utilizzando materiale di scarico?Gao Yang: Esiste una stretta correlazione con i miei problemi del vivere, con la questione della mia identità. Vivevo circondato da rifiuti. Le notizie mi venivano riportate dagli artisti di avanguardie provenienti da tutto il mondo con i quali ero in contatto, perché l'arte deve stare a contatto con la società. Nel mio modo di interpretarla, percepii con particolare intensitàche essa doveva affidarsi all'interiorità per essere più realistica. Ricordo che ogni giorno andavo a raccogliere rifiuti col mio sacco, il mattino poco dopo le sei raccoglievo quelli gettati dai contadini e, una volta rientrato, li pulivo e con del materiale speciale li mescolavo al colore. Ogni giorno così.Posso parlare della mia pittura solo partendo dalla raccolta dei rifuti. Anche il fattore economico ha rappresentato un limite. Ho continuato con la serie dei rifiuti anche in Italia, per due anni.Wu Hong: Comprendo perfettamente la logica che é alla base di queste opere. Questo mi fa ricordare una mostra francese ospitata nel 2002 al China Millennium Monument, una mostra a mio avviso molto significativa ma che non ebbe grande successo di pubblico non essendo al passo con la realtà della Cina del momento. Si trattava di una mostra sul neorealismo francese, movimento nato negli anni '60 del XX secolo che, sulla scia dello sviluppo della cultura industriale, produsse una nuova ideologia. Gli artisti cercavano nella "natura" dell'epoca una nuova direzione, e questa natura altro non era che la macchina, il torrente impetuoso dell'industria e della pubblicità, il prodotto culturale dell'intenso sviluppo della cultura industriale nell'era moderna. L'artista riassembla e riplasma materiali naturali e artificiali, oggetti e frammenti, rifiuti industriali, simboli alla moda della società, giunge ad usare cartelli pubblicitari, senza sosta incolla, strappa le tracce lasciate dalla decomposizione naturale per creare nuovi concetti d'arte. E poi c'è l'arte povera italiana, la Mono-ha giapponese, tutti fenomeni artistici sorti in paesi diversi e che, con modalità diverse, hanno rimarcato che l'arte deve uscire fuori dalla sacra aura e stabilire un contatto con la vita di tutti i giorni.Gao Yang:
vero. Mi ritrovavo spesso a bere in compagnia di altri amici artisti, ma in seguito il mio carattere è mutato, sono diventato più introverso, quasi cinico, e di tutto questo si trova traccia nelle mie opere di allora.Wu Hong: Nelle
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